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	<title>Comments for Sentire Cum Ecclesia</title>
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	<description>To think with the Church.... In "the Spirit of Benny 16". Catholic Theology, Ecumenism, Interfaith relations, History, Liturgy, Philosophy and whatever topics are hot in the ecclesiastical world! Please comment - with gentleness and reverence! Our motto on this blog is: &#60;b&#62;"Maior autem his est spes"&#60;/b&#62;</description>
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		<title>Comment on Peter Kreeft on What Christians can learn from Islam by Christine</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/peter-kreeft-on-what-christians-can-learn-from-islam/#comment-18176</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4483#comment-18176</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;And of course JPII’s Assissi gestures are one of the reasons some of us are glad the cause for his beatification has slowed…&lt;/i&gt;

I have to admit I had a bit of a problem with that as well.

There&#039;s a wonderful Maronite Catholic parish in downtown Cleveland.  I am learning much about their Arab culture, their Syriac-Aramaic liturgy and their deep roots in the Middle East.  That may actually help me to appreciate the cultural commonality with those Muslims who do not see their faith through the lens of Jihad.  

Nevertheless, I tend to agree with Terra that until more Catholics become recatechized as to the truths of their faith the ecumenical talks are probably best left in the hands of the &quot;experts&quot; who are better qualified to sort these issues out.  

Of course, that by no means excludes extending the hand of friendship to Muslims we may encounter in the workplace or socially.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And of course JPII’s Assissi gestures are one of the reasons some of us are glad the cause for his beatification has slowed…</i></p>
<p>I have to admit I had a bit of a problem with that as well.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a wonderful Maronite Catholic parish in downtown Cleveland.  I am learning much about their Arab culture, their Syriac-Aramaic liturgy and their deep roots in the Middle East.  That may actually help me to appreciate the cultural commonality with those Muslims who do not see their faith through the lens of Jihad.  </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I tend to agree with Terra that until more Catholics become recatechized as to the truths of their faith the ecumenical talks are probably best left in the hands of the &#8220;experts&#8221; who are better qualified to sort these issues out.  </p>
<p>Of course, that by no means excludes extending the hand of friendship to Muslims we may encounter in the workplace or socially.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome news on Catholic School funding by Peregrinus</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/welcome-news-on-catholic-school-funding/#comment-18174</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peregrinus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4495#comment-18174</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The withdrawal of religious brothers and sisters is not the main reason for the rising costs of Catholic education.

When labour inputs were the main cost of education, then the willingness of religious to work for a great deal less than lay staff would have been paid did make a big difference.  However the viability of Catholic schools operating on this model was increasingly threatened as educational standard rose, schools were expected to have educationally optimal class sizes, to have sports facilities, science facilities, etc, and more and more textbooks and equipment had to be provided.  Long before the decline in vocations set in the church authorities recognised this and embarked on a campaign to secure state funding so that Catholic schools could meet the rising standards of what was regarded as appropriate and acceptable educational provision.

The notion that, if we had lots of brothers and sisters willing to work for subsistence rates, Catholic education of an acceptable standard could be provided entirely funded by fees set at a level which would enable someone on average earnings to put, say, four children through school until year 12 is, I think, unrealistic.  Catholic education will be subsidised, or it will be provided to relatively few, and the church has recognised this for at least the last sixty years.  The decline in vocations may have intensified the problem, but it didn’t cause it.

If we &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; have a remarkable rise in vocations to the religious life, it wouldn’t necessarily be to the teaching orders.  The teaching orders arose at a particular time in the life of the church when there was a particular need for them.  That need has largely passed.  It is perfectly possible for someone who has a vocation to engage in Christian education to follow that vocation without entering the religious life, and there is no reason to assume that anyone who has a vocation to the religious life also has a vocation to teaching.  The (lay and religious) movements which are growing at the present time are not, for the most part, those involved in teaching.  The Holy Spirit may be telling us something there.  The main purpose of the religious life is not, after all, to provide the Catholic community with a cheap alternative to paying its teachers properly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The withdrawal of religious brothers and sisters is not the main reason for the rising costs of Catholic education.</p>
<p>When labour inputs were the main cost of education, then the willingness of religious to work for a great deal less than lay staff would have been paid did make a big difference.  However the viability of Catholic schools operating on this model was increasingly threatened as educational standard rose, schools were expected to have educationally optimal class sizes, to have sports facilities, science facilities, etc, and more and more textbooks and equipment had to be provided.  Long before the decline in vocations set in the church authorities recognised this and embarked on a campaign to secure state funding so that Catholic schools could meet the rising standards of what was regarded as appropriate and acceptable educational provision.</p>
<p>The notion that, if we had lots of brothers and sisters willing to work for subsistence rates, Catholic education of an acceptable standard could be provided entirely funded by fees set at a level which would enable someone on average earnings to put, say, four children through school until year 12 is, I think, unrealistic.  Catholic education will be subsidised, or it will be provided to relatively few, and the church has recognised this for at least the last sixty years.  The decline in vocations may have intensified the problem, but it didn’t cause it.</p>
<p>If we <i>did</i> have a remarkable rise in vocations to the religious life, it wouldn’t necessarily be to the teaching orders.  The teaching orders arose at a particular time in the life of the church when there was a particular need for them.  That need has largely passed.  It is perfectly possible for someone who has a vocation to engage in Christian education to follow that vocation without entering the religious life, and there is no reason to assume that anyone who has a vocation to the religious life also has a vocation to teaching.  The (lay and religious) movements which are growing at the present time are not, for the most part, those involved in teaching.  The Holy Spirit may be telling us something there.  The main purpose of the religious life is not, after all, to provide the Catholic community with a cheap alternative to paying its teachers properly.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome news on Catholic School funding by Peregrinus</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/welcome-news-on-catholic-school-funding/#comment-18173</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peregrinus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 07:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4495#comment-18173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;“If you do the sums you realise that parents who send their children to Catholic Schools are in fact (even under this new funding) saving the government 75% of what it would cost to educate their children in State Schools. I think we need some recognition of that.”&lt;/I&gt;

Not &lt;i&gt;quite&lt;/i&gt;.

25% is the figure which it is proposed that the State should pay.  However the Catholic schools receive the bulk of their funding from the Federal government.  Currently for the Catholic school sector this is set at about 56% of state government expenditure on public schools (though that may – I don’t know – vary from school to school according to financial need).

On average, so, if the 25% figure is implemented, then Catholic schools will receive (25% + 56% =) 81% of the public funding that government schools get.  

It may be true that the result of my sending my child to a Catholic school is that the State government is relieved of 75% of what it would otherwise have to pay.  The great bulk of this, though, is covered by the Federal government (and so ultimately by taxpayers at large), rather than by the fees that I pay.  It may be my choice that triggers this shift in costs from State to Federal, but it’s mostly other people’s money that replaces the state funding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“If you do the sums you realise that parents who send their children to Catholic Schools are in fact (even under this new funding) saving the government 75% of what it would cost to educate their children in State Schools. I think we need some recognition of that.”</i></p>
<p>Not <i>quite</i>.</p>
<p>25% is the figure which it is proposed that the State should pay.  However the Catholic schools receive the bulk of their funding from the Federal government.  Currently for the Catholic school sector this is set at about 56% of state government expenditure on public schools (though that may – I don’t know – vary from school to school according to financial need).</p>
<p>On average, so, if the 25% figure is implemented, then Catholic schools will receive (25% + 56% =) 81% of the public funding that government schools get.  </p>
<p>It may be true that the result of my sending my child to a Catholic school is that the State government is relieved of 75% of what it would otherwise have to pay.  The great bulk of this, though, is covered by the Federal government (and so ultimately by taxpayers at large), rather than by the fees that I pay.  It may be my choice that triggers this shift in costs from State to Federal, but it’s mostly other people’s money that replaces the state funding.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome news on Catholic School funding by Louise</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/welcome-news-on-catholic-school-funding/#comment-18172</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Louise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 06:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4495#comment-18172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marcel is also correct, however, that whenever Caesar chips in, the system goes to pot. That&#039;s why it&#039;s even more imperative to have religious brothers and sisters in charge again; Caesar does need to butt out (even though, in justice, the guvvermint ought to provide some funding for Catholic schools), yet the fees need to be affordable. 

A voucher system would probably be better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcel is also correct, however, that whenever Caesar chips in, the system goes to pot. That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s even more imperative to have religious brothers and sisters in charge again; Caesar does need to butt out (even though, in justice, the guvvermint ought to provide some funding for Catholic schools), yet the fees need to be affordable. </p>
<p>A voucher system would probably be better.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome news on Catholic School funding by Louise</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/welcome-news-on-catholic-school-funding/#comment-18171</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Louise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 06:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4495#comment-18171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[you are right, David. If Catholics are properly living out the Church&#039;s teaching, then many couples (not all, of course) would have four children or more. It would only be possible for most of these families to give their children a Catholic education by homeschooling them, or sending them to a school staffed by religious sisters or brothers. Religious sisters and brothers live in a community, keeping their individual costs down, and do not require a &quot;living wage,&quot; since they have no family members to support. The religious community supports itself and relies for the rest on charity. It is a great scandal, imo, that Catholic education (if that is what were given in Catholic schools) cannot be had for the children of low income families.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you are right, David. If Catholics are properly living out the Church&#8217;s teaching, then many couples (not all, of course) would have four children or more. It would only be possible for most of these families to give their children a Catholic education by homeschooling them, or sending them to a school staffed by religious sisters or brothers. Religious sisters and brothers live in a community, keeping their individual costs down, and do not require a &#8220;living wage,&#8221; since they have no family members to support. The religious community supports itself and relies for the rest on charity. It is a great scandal, imo, that Catholic education (if that is what were given in Catholic schools) cannot be had for the children of low income families.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome news on Catholic School funding by Peter Golding</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/12/welcome-news-on-catholic-school-funding/#comment-18170</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Golding]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 06:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4495#comment-18170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is good news from the major parties.
Another reason NOT to vote for the greens who are committed to cutting funding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is good news from the major parties.<br />
Another reason NOT to vote for the greens who are committed to cutting funding.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An interesting but all too short interview with a Catholic Luther scholar by Alfredo Watkins</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/an-interesting-but-all-too-short-interview-with-a-catholic-luther-scholar/#comment-18169</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alfredo Watkins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 06:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4493#comment-18169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for posting this. As you say, it definitely leaves you hanging however.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting this. As you say, it definitely leaves you hanging however.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hypatia in the Athenian Agora by William Tighe</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/hypatia-in-the-athenian-agora/#comment-18168</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Tighe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 04:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4489#comment-18168</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why &quot;in the Athenian Agora?&quot;  Hypatia lived in Alexandria, and the very picture at the top seems to show her looking out into the Mediterranean towards the famous Pharos (or lighthouse) in the harbour of Alexandria.  I don&#039;t know whether she had any connections with Athens, or even visited it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why &#8220;in the Athenian Agora?&#8221;  Hypatia lived in Alexandria, and the very picture at the top seems to show her looking out into the Mediterranean towards the famous Pharos (or lighthouse) in the harbour of Alexandria.  I don&#8217;t know whether she had any connections with Athens, or even visited it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Peter Kreeft on What Christians can learn from Islam by Terra</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/peter-kreeft-on-what-christians-can-learn-from-islam/#comment-18167</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 02:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4483#comment-18167</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You correctly anticipated my reaction to the Pontifical Council - moreover sharing spiritual riches doesn&#039;t necessarily mean attending each others formal prayer services.  And of course JPII&#039;s Assissi gestures are one of the reasons some of us are glad the cause for his beatification has slowed...

But in any case, no doubt you are pouring over the new guidelines for interreligious debate contained in the Pope&#039;s Apostolic Exhortation on Scripture, which stress the role of mission in such dialogues, and avoidance of syncretism and relativism....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You correctly anticipated my reaction to the Pontifical Council &#8211; moreover sharing spiritual riches doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean attending each others formal prayer services.  And of course JPII&#8217;s Assissi gestures are one of the reasons some of us are glad the cause for his beatification has slowed&#8230;</p>
<p>But in any case, no doubt you are pouring over the new guidelines for interreligious debate contained in the Pope&#8217;s Apostolic Exhortation on Scripture, which stress the role of mission in such dialogues, and avoidance of syncretism and relativism&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Peter Kreeft on What Christians can learn from Islam by Ogden Chichester</title>
		<link>http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/peter-kreeft-on-what-christians-can-learn-from-islam/#comment-18166</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ogden Chichester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 02:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scecclesia.wordpress.com/?p=4483#comment-18166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David,

I see you linked to the debate too. It wasn&#039;t coming up for me on Google Rearder, but I see it now.

Good innit?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I see you linked to the debate too. It wasn&#8217;t coming up for me on Google Rearder, but I see it now.</p>
<p>Good innit?</p>
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